How to Get all the Motivated Seller Leads you Want for Free

Jerry Norton: There's this narrative that wholesaling is predatory. It's they call it equity theft. Right? And we hear these stories of grandma getting kicked out of her house, and this stuff just gets a lot of attention. And so the the regulators, the real estate commissions, the National Association of Realtors, the media, everybody kind of grabs onto this idea around wholesaling being a bad thing.

And if you think about wholesaling, it's like the last frontier of entrepreneurship with a low barrier to entry. Think about it. A single piece of paper, an assignment of contract, a single piece of paper, you can make millions of dollars.

Steve Trang: Everybody, welcome to today's episode of Real Estate Disrupters. We got a real special one for you guys today. We've got Jerry Norton coming in from Puerto Rico to talk about the latest and what is going on in the real estate market and also how to get all the motivated seller leads you want for free. It's a pretty ridiculous program.

Jerry: When I

Steve: heard about it, I thought it was outrageous. So, guys, you you know I'm on a mission to create a 100 millionaires. Information on the show alone is enough to help you become a millionaire. If you'll take consistent action, you'll become one. And if you guys get value today, please hit that subscribe button.

That way we can help more people become millionaires. You ready?

Jerry: Let's do it.

Steve: Alright. So the first thing is, you know, we've been talking about for some time how winter is coming. Right? Like, wholesaling, the regulators aren't particularly fond of it. National Association of Realtors doesn't really love it.

Jerry: Mhmm.

Steve: And some change is gonna be coming eventually, and we gotta be ready for it. Well, winter's here.

Jerry: Yeah. It's not coming. It's here. Yeah. You know?

So The snowstorm is, like, upon us. Right?

Steve: Yeah. And I think, you know, I've cited you when we talked about imparting this route. She's like, you know, Jerry and Nori has been talking about this for some time now. Mhmm. If we don't regulate from within, we'll be regulated externally.

Yeah. Yeah. So what is going on right now?

Jerry: Well, I mean, that's the question. The the real concern is in the marketplace, there's this narrative that wholesaling is predatory. It's we they call it equity theft. Right? And we hear these stories of grandma getting kicked out of her house, and this stuff just gets a lot of attention.

And so the the regulators, the real estate commissions, the National Association of Realtors, the media, everybody kinda grabs onto this idea around wholesaling being a bad thing.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: Now within our industry, we're we're isolated. We're like in a bubble. We think we're amazing. We think we help sellers. We think we're the greatest thing ever.

We think the entire real estate life cycle would not happen without wholesalers. All of that may be true, but that's not how the world sees us.

Steve: Yeah. No. Not at all. It's, I kinda use this example for sales. Right?

We do I'm very passionate about sales. But, yeah, inside of sales, like, we see this is a noble profession. Yeah. The world needs us. Right?

Nothing happens if sales aren't happening. But outside of our bubble, right, the nurses are at the top. The nurses always win as far as trust. Always win. Right?

But we're always, like, as salespeople hanging out with, like, attorneys and politicians, and it's just not a good situation. And And you talk about, like, yeah, the value of rain, like, holes, realtors are seen as a higher, prestige. Flippers are seen at a higher prestige. Right? Loan offices, title companies.

But none of these people will be, not none, but they'd be a lot less relevant if we don't have the wholesaler involved to find the properties.

Jerry: And you know what, Steve? I didn't realize how much the wholesaler plays a role in the entire, you know, investing cog. I was talking to the National Association of Private Lenders. K? And they're this big group.

They've got a ton of private lenders. And they heard me talking about regulation, and they went back and they surveyed their all their members, lenders. And they asked their lenders, okay. Of the loans you do, where did those loans originate? So they're doing loans to flippers and stuff.

Right? It was, like, 70 some percent of the lenders that are doing private money loans to flippers were sourced from wholesalers.

Steve: Really?

Jerry: I mean, that's a huge number to think about. Massive. Like, the inventory that's brought to the investing world coming from wholesalers, I think it's way more than people even realize.

Steve: So they're sourcing the properties, and then they're referring lenders to the flippers.

Jerry: Yeah. So the lenders are financing the flippers who are getting deals from wholesalers.

Steve: Gotcha. Gotcha. So the proper point yeah. Okay. So flippers aren't buying off the MLS.

They're buying off of wholesalers.

Jerry: And you know what? When I started twenty years ago, the whole wholesaling was like this obscure thing. It was like an underground thing. It was a little known strategy. And flippers at that point in time, like, they'd source their own deals.

They'd work with agents. They'd go direct to seller. They'd find their own well, since wholesaling became like this entire industry, they're all lazy. They don't wanna go set up their own acquisitions. Right?

They just wanna rehab and do their thing and and buy and hold people, want a landlord. So wholesalers have just kind of filled in that outsourced acquisitions team, really, is all the sailing is. It's outsourced acquisitions.

Steve: Yeah. You look at the history. When you get into investing, right, like, you watch HGTV. Yeah. Right?

You just buy this deal. He knows how it came. Or you just buy this deal and get all the glory. But there was a time way before all these different data providers, the flippers would find the homeowners directly, buy the property, rehab it, and then sell it. Yeah.

Like, they did the whole spectrum. Yeah. And then at some point, someone realized, hey. I can get someone to bird dog it. I'll just pay them $500.

Right? And then eventually, the bird dogger became the wholesaler. Mhmm. And now they're collecting a fee. But the other thing too is, I remember we we learned this in real estate schools.

It's funny enough. Wholesaling we didn't call it wholesaling. We call it, a signing or or optioning Mhmm. Was that I wouldn't pay you if you're the flipper, you wouldn't pay me my 15,000, 20,000 assignment fee on the HUD. You pay me 500 to 5,000 cash to sell you the contract.

Yeah. Right? It was outside of title. It wasn't through escrow.

Jerry: Mhmm.

Steve: So I don't know exactly when it went from, like, cash outside of escrow to on the HUD upon closing.

Jerry: Mhmm.

Steve: And then I kinda laugh. Like, we got our dear friend Jamil, and he figured out to create this whole other thing where, like, I'm gonna connect the wholesaler with the flipper. Right? So we create another little Yeah. Compartment in it.

But, yeah, wholesalers, we think we're valuable, and we we kinda, like, initiate this whole, ecosystem. Yeah. But we are not revered.

Jerry: No. No. In fact, here's what's kinda scary about it is I don't know if it's salvageable. That's the scary thing.

Steve: The name is pretty tarnished.

Jerry: I don't know if we can save save wholesaling, meaning change the perception. I think we've we've locked that window's come and gone. We've waited too long Mhmm. To really do anything about it. Nowhere are we actually creating some other kind of image for ourselves.

So what's happening is the bad actors, which every industry has them. Right? Every single industry has them. The bad actors are getting the spotlight. They're they're getting the local news

Steve: stories. Lights. And it's so National news.

Jerry: And it's so easy. You just take the one bad thing where somebody got ripped off and thrown out, and it's and and if it's an old person, that's even more helpful to the narrative. Mhmm.

Steve: And

Jerry: then they run with these stories, and then you've got you've got consumer protection, all the regulators, everybody. I mean, you look at we're gonna talk about it. When you look at South Carolina, I did not know this. Maybe you knew this, but nine out of the 10 members of the commission, the real estate commission, are licensed agents.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: There's nine agents and one lawyer Yeah. That make up the South Carolina real estate.

Steve: Had the rule where one of them had to be not be licensed.

Jerry: You too. Yeah.

Steve: But I

Jerry: don't know if anybody's seen a problem here.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: But that's the overarching problem here is we're demonized in the media and in all these places outside of our own industry. We're demonized.

Steve: Right.

Jerry: And when you're made the bad guy, it becomes really easy and justifiable to pass regulation.

Steve: Mhmm. And

Jerry: the problem is is I don't think it's just gonna stop at, hey. We wanna regulate you. We wanna organize we we we wanna license you. We wanna watch what you're doing. I don't think that's the end game.

Steve: Yeah. We you talk about a tarnished brand. Like, I think we're lumped in there with the ambulance chasers. Yeah. And you can't revamp the ambulance chasing narrative.

Jerry: I don't know how you change that perception in the marketplace.

Steve: Yeah. So And I get

Jerry: it every day. I get DMs about how shady we are and how wrong we are and how bad we do to people, and it's just misunderstanding.

Steve: Well, you know, I tried. When I first started real estate, I tried to marry the realtor world and the wholesaler world. I tried. Yeah. And I tried, I wanna say, for quite some time, maybe fifteen, twenty episodes, I realized we're just mixing oil and water here.

They're just destined to hate each other. It's it's it's the Montagues and the Juliets or whatever. Right? Yeah. But it's the house, you know, whatever the two families with Romeo and Juliet.

Yeah. This is just the way it's gonna be. They're just gonna hate each other. And so I've had multiple conversations with high quality top producing realtors explaining to them the value that a wholesaler provides. And after the ones are open minded.

After a ten minute conversation, they see the value. Yeah. But the perception at the beginning of the conversation is how you're just stealing someone's equity. And even worse, stealing equity is you're taking away my opportunity to get a commission.

Jerry: Yeah. Well, part of the problem here too is if you think about, like, who's attracted to a wholesale business, and it's very entrepreneurial. Like, as a wholesaler, you're you're very much a business owner, very entrepreneurial, and the agent model is very much professional services.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: You know, I'm a professional. I've been licensed. I I go through continuing education. So it's a much different type of person that is drawn more towards towards the real estate agent Mhmm.

Steve: Model Yeah.

Jerry: Than it is maybe a wholesale business.

Steve: And the I mean, for those that that don't know you. Right? So, like, I asked you here to talk about for a couple of different reasons. We've known each other for quite some time.

Jerry: Mhmm.

Steve: So you're licensed.

Jerry: Mhmm.

Steve: You flip. How long have you been licensed? Most business owners waste their time and money on solutions that never fix the root problems. They'll address all the symptoms due to slow revenue. And because they're only fixing the consequences, the real problem stays hidden and the cycle of wasting time and money continues.

It's like having a lingering headache that won't go away despite trying every over the counter medicine. When reality, you should have just gone to the doctor and had them figure out exactly what was causing the headache. And that's what's so difficult about business. You can see and feel the symptoms and yet struggle to find it. Now imagine you can find a prescription that doesn't just mask the symptoms but actually addresses the root cause.

Where would your business be if you address that right now? That's what our sales event is about. Your marketing doesn't suck. Your leads aren't bad, and your operations aren't terrible. It's that you haven't addressed what actually makes you money in wholesale, which is the conversations you have with homeowners.

It's critical that you build trust with sellers, demonstrate that you fully understand their situation, know exactly what's keeping them up at night, and paint the ideal outcome that leads them to a better future by working with you. That's what it takes to get signed contracts and keep your business going. Simply put, at our event, you'll walk away with a framework, phrases, questions, documents, and process to close more sales and buy more houses. Join the hundreds of others who have come to our live event and dramatically grown their business. Our event is happening soon and is available for you to join only if you're willing to take the pill.

Jerry: Almost twenty years. Yeah. When I got started in o four, that was the only source of data or information. I mean, if you didn't have a license, you you were up there was there was the MLS and driving for dollars.

Steve: Yeah. I did both of those.

Jerry: Those are my options to get data, to get information. Yeah. It's way different than today.

Steve: So license, eventually, open your own brokerage.

Jerry: I got my own broker I got my broker's license because what was happening is as a wholesaler, the broker would bring me in once a year and say, what are you doing? You're a liability. You know, go sell some real estate. And I wasn't selling real estate. I just wanted the license for investing.

Steve: Yeah.

Jerry: So I was changing brokerages every year. So I said, you know what? I'm just gonna go get my own broker's license and not answer to anybody.

Steve: Yeah. So the again, the reason why I asked you to come in because you have a unique perspective. Right? Like, there are a lot of realtors who look upon look down upon the wholesaling industry. And wholesalers, you might not be aware of, like, how the perception is on the outside.

Yeah. Having someone that has a real estate license been practicing the realtor side, also, the flipping side, you have a a a different, perspective. You know, just a quick aside as well. Like, I got my license in o seven. Yeah.

I went to real estate school. I went through the whole deal. We're at ninety hour credit hours, whatever it was. And I'm walking out that day as well as, like, the first ten years of my realtor career. What a what a massive waste of time.

Everything we learned in real estate school. Massive waste of time.

Jerry: How many square feet are in an acre and all that kind of stuff.

Steve: Yeah. Right. What a rod is and all these other stuff. Mhmm. But once I became an investor, that information was actually useful.

Yeah. Right? Learning about lot splits and, joint tenancy and Oh, yeah. All these

Jerry: different ways to take title.

Steve: Different ways to kinda, like, how to clean up title. Like, all these things you need to become a successful real estate, not need, will be helpful. Yeah. It's funny. Like, that that didn't

Jerry: I feel the same thing. I feel like my my licensing education has just enhanced my investing ability and skill set and knowledge.

Steve: Right.

Jerry: And you and I talked about this. I remember you came, and and we did some content around, you know, getting a license as an investor and just all of the benefit you get from that. Like, the downside is so minuscule, and the upside is so massive.

Steve: Right. Well, Well, let's let's touch on the downside because you and I think that the downside is comical. Yeah. What's the downside of becoming a licensed

Jerry: to disclose that you're licensed.

Steve: Yeah. Like okay. Right. You're held to a higher standard ethically. You don't have ethics.

Jerry: You should be anyway holding yourself to a higher standard. You know?

Steve: Yeah. So it's just it it it's mind boggling. Like, oh, you don't be licensed. You're gonna create greater liabilities. Like, no.

Don't be a bad person. Yeah.

Jerry: Whether you have a license or not, do the right thing. Right.

Steve: So the upside, though, what's the upside of being licensed?

Jerry: Well, I mean, there's so many upsides. Like, you can set up your own showings. You can list your own properties. You can get referral. You can refer listings to other agents.

You can only get paid from an agent on a referral if you're also licensed.

Steve: Right.

Jerry: Like, my license alone makes me hundreds of thousands of dollars just that alone.

Steve: Right.

Jerry: Being able to receive commission and and refer leads to other agents.

Steve: You can get a property, a lead that doesn't work out, refer it to a realtor and get paid legally. And if the other side decides to kinda hose you, you have legal recourse. Yeah. Right? I think that's the biggest thing is like, hey.

This deal doesn't work. I'll send it to you as a wholesaler. Right? I'll send it to you as a realtor, and they'll kinda hook me up Mhmm. When something works out.

I've got no legal recourse because this activity here was illegal. Yeah. You can't pay someone a, quote, unquote, not referral fee referral fee.

Jerry: It's called noncommissioned sales. You can't do it.

Steve: Can't do it. But as a realtor, hey. Jerry, I'm gonna send you this deal, and when it closes, pay me 25%. Yeah. And if you don't, we're having a

Jerry: conversation. Calling somebody. Yeah.

Steve: We're having a conversation, and we're gonna we're gonna work this out.

Jerry: We even we even list properties where, you know, you spend money on a lead, you get a seller on the phone, and they're retail, and they're not a motivated seller. Yeah. We'll offer to list it for them.

Steve: Yeah. And if you have

Jerry: your license, you can do that. Exactly. So tons of benefit, I think.

Steve: Yep. So winter's here. So what what's going on right now in the market?

Jerry: Well, if you look at what's happened in the past five years, so Illinois was the first state to pass regulation, and and it was pretty hard. Like, they came down really hard

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: On wholesaling. The fines, 25,000, more than one in a twelve month period is considered, is considered brokering. Like, that's there's two camps really, Steve. There's the camp of if you market a contract for sale, that's brokering and you need a license. So some states have done that.

That's Nebraska. That's Oklahoma. That's Kentucky. So their big concern is marketing a contract for sale is brokering. Therefore, you need a license.

Steve: Mhmm. Well,

Jerry: everybody's like, okay. Well, fine then. I won't, publicly market my contract. I'll send it to an email list or investor lift is is privately owned. Well, that's not the intent of that, and I don't think that will hold up.

But that's been the argument is, okay. That's easy to get around. Another camp is taking on the position that just the act of wholesaling, just the assignment of contract in and of itself is brokering and therefore needs a license. And that's Virginia. That's Illinois.

That's now, Oregon and Iowa. So a lot of states are taking on that mindset that it's not about marketing your contract. It's just doing it. We're considering that now brokering that you need a license.

Steve: Yeah. Which I personally completely disagree with.

Jerry: Me too.

Steve: But my legal opinion means absolutely nothing because I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not prepared to go fight the state of Oregon. We're not gonna have a train versus the state of Oregon to set some sort of precedent.

Jerry: Well, that's the thing is all of this is so new that it's gonna take case law to really define what some of these laws are because some of them are sort of ambiguous ambiguous. A lot of people are like, well, I can double close. I've got some real I've got some real different ideas around if you can double close in some of these states, if that will actually be permissible. You know? So there's there's these there's this prevailing movement in the real estate commissions, and you gotta understand something here.

The real estate commission, they only have jurisdiction over licensees.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: So I didn't quite understand this till recently talking to some lawyers that the big movement to get you licensed as a wholesaler is less about, we want you educated. It's less about that. They they may say that that's what it's about. Like, hey. We want you educated and hold held to a higher standard.

It's more about falling under the jurisdiction of the commission because now they can mandate what you do. They can control what you do. They can update the way you do things. Right? Like, they're now they're now watching you.

Steve: Right. You have different jurisdiction. And and just to kinda give, like, some, a different perspective on this, you know, I have my brokerage. At my peak, I had, you know, 100 plus realtors. And I remember at some point, I think when I was getting my broker's license, he had to take nine hours or something like that.

And I'm like, yeah. Whatever the broker says is the way it is.

Jerry: Yeah. Right?

Steve: I had to dispute somebody, like, like an agent in my organization. And I said jokingly, like, I don't think you understand. Like, when you argue with me as your broker, like, what I say as your broker is the law. Yeah. I know, like, that sounds excessive.

Like, I I know I'm saying it jokingly. But per the Department of Real Estate, if you're licensed with me, what I say as a licensee is the law.

Jerry: Because the agent is a subagent of the broker. Right. The broker is ultimately held responsible.

Steve: Exactly. So I would say this jokingly, but I also kinda meant it. And so a step above the broker is the Department of Real Estate.

Jerry: Mhmm.

Steve: And what they say is also the law. Yeah. And they don't have to go through the legislature. They don't don't have to get the governor to sign off on it. Mhmm.

Right? This is a department that's regulated by the governor. But at the end of the day, if they say this is the way you need to do things, it's the way you need to do things. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And so so we're seeing alright. So you were saying, like, the intent here with the licensing.

Jerry: So most of the regulation is around licensing. There's a there's two states that didn't require licensing Arizona. They just want you to disclose. Mhmm. And then a brand new one is, who was brand new?

Was it Indiana?

Steve: In Wisconsin, just did something.

Jerry: Oh, Wisconsin. Wisconsin just did, same thing as Arizona where they just want you to disclose. But by and large, it's about getting a license. And now the newest thing is not just a license, but also heavy disclosure. Mhmm.

And Oregon went so far also as to is to follow Philadelphia, which is they want you to register now with the state. I didn't see that.

Steve: Yeah. You had to register that you're a wholesaler.

Jerry: Yes. And you gotta follow some rules. You gotta pay fees, and you gotta be 18. You have to they can do a a criminal background check, fingerprints.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: Like, it's getting pretty controlling.

Steve: And that's always been my biggest fear of the regulating with the with the background checks. And I understand that someone's asset, but, like, pardon me. I don't know why I've always had my heart out for the person that needs a second chance. Yeah. And my biggest thing was when regulate this, because I we knew this day was coming.

We're hoping that it would, but we knew this day was coming. My biggest fear is always, like, if you're gonna regulate this and background checks, then there are a lot of people that have turned their lives around that might be get regulated out of the business.

Jerry: Yeah. That's Oregon. Oregon, if you have a background, then you're you're not allowed to register, you're not allowed to be a wholesaler. Yeah. And then Jamil chances.

Steve: And Jamil posted his videos like, okay. So you can basically self fentanyl. Yeah.

Jerry: Smoke crack.

Steve: Yeah. Do heroin. But God forbid, you wholesale.

Jerry: Yeah. Right. Is it is it it's just yeah. It's really sad to see some of some of this going down. And and yet, at the same time, Steve, this is where, like, I have an issue with this.

I have, like, a moral dilemma because everyone tends to wanna, like, gloss this over or maybe be like, okay. Well, no problem. I'll just double close. Well, maybe.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: But if you're not actually being fully aware of what's going on and you're not taking this head on, meaning open your eyes to what's happening, and then you're not gonna be able to pivot in time. Mhmm. And that's the thing for me. I whatever they're doing, I need to know about it. I wanna be ready for it.

And if I see the bigger picture of what's happening, I just wanna be able to pivot. I wanna help other people pivot.

Steve: Right. Because

Jerry: we're all gonna have to pivot here soon.

Steve: Oh, yeah. You have to pivot. Like, not pivoting. I mean, I guess you could not pivot. You just got a business.

Jerry: You're gonna be obsolete. You're gonna go out of business because the the changes are coming, and they're coming faster and heavier. And South Carolina might change the entire game for the whole thing.

Steve: Yeah. If you don't if you don't, you know, wake up, you could turn to Blockbuster.

Jerry: You're gonna be Blockbuster if

Steve: you don't work with Nokia. Right? Yeah.

Jerry: Yeah. We're we're innovative. Right? So I'm just trying to be innovative. So I'm actually not discouraged by it all.

I'm not, like, down about it. I'm actually just wanna be aware, and I wanna be able to see what's coming and be ready for it. Because when it happens, then I don't wanna be, like, introducing a new model. I wanna have a new model working well, which means I I'm changing now. What I'm

Steve: prepared today. That's right. Yeah. So there's not as many people talking about this.

Jerry: Yeah. Why? Well, I think most of the people that talk about anything related to wholesaling are is the education space, and the education space thrives on, you know, newbies coming in. And if you think about wholesaling, it's like the last it's like the last frontier of entrepreneurship with a low barrier to entry.

Steve: Mhmm. I mean,

Jerry: think about it. A single piece of paper, an assignment of contract, a single piece of paper, you can make millions of dollars with zero entry into the business and no money, frankly.

Steve: Yeah.

Jerry: Where else in the world can you do that? Wholesaling is the last business model

Steve: Yeah.

Jerry: Where a brand new person with no experience, no barrier to entry, no no requirement whatsoever to get in can learn how to do it and with a single piece of paper and no money transact millions of dollars.

Steve: Yeah.

Jerry: Well, that's not looked upon very highly. Right? Like, that's that that door is gonna get shut, and it's that's what we're seeing.

Steve: Right. And so

Jerry: So what it means is what it means where I'm going with that, Steve, is, like, I think nobody wants to talk about it because it's kinda like, oh, I don't wanna I don't wanna wanna get discouraged. I don't want I don't want new people coming in the business and not wanna come in the business because now there's some friction. Mhmm. And I think that's just that's my perception. I don't know if that's true.

Yeah. Well That's part of why I don't think people

Steve: are talking about it very much. If that's their perspective, that's slightly irresponsible.

Jerry: Yeah. Right.

Steve: I have

Jerry: a moral dilemma with that. Yeah.

Steve: What's your moral dilemma?

Jerry: Well, I don't wanna be telling people, hey. Get into wholesaling. It's a great business, which by the way, it's not gonna work out so good for you because they're they're stopping the newbie from getting into the business. Instead, I wanna say, hey. Here's what's happening happening.

You can still get into this, but we've gotta do things differently now.

Steve: Yeah. Like,

Jerry: your barrier to entry is gonna start to go up some here, but you can do it, and let's figure this out. Yeah. And I've got ideas around what what we need to do to figure it out. But

Steve: So you started in o four. I started in o seven. Right? So we've got a chance to, like

Jerry: Like a dinosaur.

Steve: We got to experience a few different things in the market shifts and the regulations that occurred. Yeah. And one of the ones that really pissed me off, probably the one that pissed me off the most, was the Dodd Frank Act. Yeah. Right?

And because the Dodd Frank Act came out to protect homeowners from, these, people that are quote, unquote, equity stripping and this and that. And so we were doing short sales. Right? Shout out to Matthew Potter. He's the host of part in the disruption.

I would go out there and market myself as a short sale expert, but then he would do all the paperwork. Like, he was the one that was on hold with the banks. He had the bad

Jerry: he had the worst job.

Steve: He had the worst, and we had the penny marketing expenses. I took care of all the marketing. Right? So, but we did a lot of short sales. Mhmm.

And when Dodd Frank passed, the thing that passed in Dodd Frank was that twenty one days within foreclosure, it could not start a short sale because they consider that to be predatory.

Jerry: Mhmm.

Steve: And so after that passed, we had so many homeowners. Because, like, you know how it goes with denial. Yeah. I'm in foreclosure. I'm in denial.

This is no big deal. There's no big deal. And then there's a window where they're like, crap. I'm in a bad spot. I need help.

Jerry: And it's the eleventh hour.

Steve: It's the eleventh hour well past the twenty one day window, and they reach out to us. And all we can say is, I'm sorry. Yep. Because of Dodd Frank, I can't help you save your house.

Jerry: And they go to foreclosure.

Steve: And they go to foreclosure. Like, it was the it was so painful. It was so mindless. As a professional, I'm frustrated because you're holding my hand or you're you're preventing me. You're holding my hands behind my back, preventing me from helping people.

Yeah. And, like, that's the thing that I thrive on. That's what fulfills me. So I can't do that. And now we got these regulations.

Jerry: Those are doing the same thing. Because if you think about it, let's say that they get rid of the assignment of contract and we double close.

Steve: Right.

Jerry: Okay. Well, when you double close, you introduce more fees. Right? You gotta you gotta pay fees when you buy it, pay fees when you turn around and sell it, and you gotta pay transactional funding. Where are those additional fees coming from?

Steve: Not to mention potential transfer taxes depending on other states.

Jerry: Some states have high transfer tax. So where that that additional fee those additional Not the business owner. You gotta you gotta make a profit. Yeah. You gotta you're in business.

Right? So that gets passed on to the homeowner, the very person that is supposed to be protected.

Steve: Yeah. So you and I are are still gonna have the same targeted profit, same profit targets because we have the same marketing expenses. Our marketing expenses didn't go lower because of the new regulation. Right? So our profit target is still the same.

So the money is coming from somewhere. It's coming out of the home market. What we could pay went down because of these costs. Because because of these rules and regulations are coming in place.

Jerry: Yeah. And if they stop wholesaling altogether, like, let's just hypothetically say and everyone's gonna think this is, like, outrageous, but there's some things going on that very well we could start to see this happen real soon. South Carolina's, is, like, right here. Mhmm. But let's just say that they did that.

Let's just hypothetically say no more wholesaling. Like, you can't do it. License or no license, you can't do it. Well, what's gonna happen now? Well, I mean, the number one method to still acquire discounted properties is gonna be to buy the property.

Like, just actually close and buy it.

Steve: The way it used to be before wholesaling for we can buy it.

Jerry: So now if I have to actually buy your property homeowner and I gotta now introduce all kinds of fees because now I have to fund that purchase, Because what's not gonna change is people are gonna buy properties, and and then there's a you have people over here that wanna sell at a discount, and they have people over here that wanna buy. The middle there of acquisitions is always gonna exist. Mhmm. Whether it's directly to the flipper or or some type of some type of wholesalers in the middle of it. Well, now you're introducing all those fees.

And so that's again, it's just gonna push this this it's gonna come out of the seller's pocket.

Steve: And, also, I was talking about thing too is, you know, I'm a, you know, shocker to people that are watching the show. I'm a free market capitalist. Alright? And Well,

Jerry: I did not know that.

Steve: Yeah. Bring a free market capitalist as irritating as it is to have a bunch of wholesalers in your market. Right? We're in Phoenix as the guru Yeah. Capital of the world.

It's also, like, all like, real a wholesale per capita, I gotta imagine, is the highest here with a lot of competition here.

Jerry: Mhmm.

Steve: Right? So as irritating as it is, have a lot of competition, it still serves as a function to create demand and that we have to be our best to win the business with the regulation. You know, it's kinda like, it's really hard to go and start, like, an oil company. Right? I mean, Chevron, Mobil, all these other guys, they made it pretty hard.

Start a bank right now. It's pretty hard. Like, the bank we're a part of took them seventeen years. Yeah. When they started, the bank was launched.

Right? Takes a lot of time and effort because of regulations. And with the regulation in place, you were saying a moment ago, like, all the holes doesn't wanna come in. They can't really get in anymore because the the the restrictions gonna be in place, making it easier for people like you and me to buy properties. And who doesn't win in that scenario?

The homeowner.

Jerry: Yeah. I mean, if you think about it, this is exactly what's happening with the NAR settlement right now where, you know, it's predicted that a million licensed agents are gonna leave the industry. Well, there's only 1.5. So what's gonna happen to the other 500,000 that do figure it out?

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: I mean, they're gonna kill it. Right. They're gonna absolutely annihilate their business because you've you've made the entry harder. Right? You made the business model harder.

Right? So wholesaling is gonna be the same thing. If if if the newbie can't come in today and get a contract and assign it with no money, and it's now left up to just the people with money and with capital, then the the highly capitalized investors are gonna be the ones that Yeah. Get all the deals.

Steve: It's a funny time in real estate right now. Right? So in the realtor world, the rich can get richer, and the less adequate are gonna be gone. And wholesaling and flipping, really, the rich can get richer, and the less competent are gonna be gone. Yeah.

It's an interesting time. So I wanna talk to you about equitable interest. Yeah. It's a funny idea because this you would think that equitable interest, since it sounds like a legal term, would be universal across all 50 states.

Jerry: Yeah. Which is not. But it's not. Mhmm.

Steve: It really is state dependent.

Jerry: Mhmm.

Steve: So when I talk about equitable interest, because I think that was a big part of the Oregon Yeah. Change. What does equitable interest mean in general, and then what does it mean in Oregon?

Jerry: Yeah. So some states consider equitable interest if you've got some kind of tie to title. Right? Like, you're like, a a contract for deed.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: You're not actually on the deed till you pay it off. Right? But you now have a legal interest in the property Mhmm. By nature of that. Other states look at it like, well, just by nature of having a contract, anybody that's a contract holder has an equitable interest in that property because they they hold a place in the contract.

Steve: Mhmm. So a

Jerry: buyer would be in have an equitable interest in that property by nature of his contract.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: So some states kinda look at it like, okay. Well, wholesaling is basically marketing your equitable interest.

Steve: Right.

Jerry: Other states, I think, are looking at it like, well, no. When we say equitable interest, we mean you have some type of legal tie. You're You're on title in some way to the property. That would be an equitable interest.

Steve: Yeah.

Jerry: So it's sorta like a little bit of a debatable thing as to what's what

Steve: when when

Jerry: we talk about equitable interest.

Steve: And it's it's you and I were talking about this the other day. And, like, as we were talking about it, it's more I was thinking, like, well, there's equitable ownership, which we'll talk about, in a moment. Yeah. But equitable interest, it feels like in order to really earn equitable interest, it actually have to give you money. Right?

There has to be consideration. Right? Real estate can't transact without consideration, which is only $10. Right? Yeah.

That's the bare minimum.

Jerry: To create equitable interest.

Steve: To create, to to offer consideration. Yeah. Right? Which is another legal term. But, like, I don't I can't buy your house for less than $10.

Like, that's, like, the minimum. Right? That's the consideration. I have to there has to be item of value.

Jerry: How

Steve: do you generate equitable interest without actually giving up any kind of financial or some other consideration.

Jerry: Yeah. I mean, are they looking at earnest money as equitable interest?

Steve: Is it? Because it's refundable. It's refundable. It's not

Jerry: What if it's nonrefundable? If it's not

Steve: refundable, then at that point, I think you can make that argument. So and, again, we're not lawyers here. It's just these are questions that I've been asking because these questions are these things are coming up in in in all these states.

Jerry: Yeah. Like, if you look at Iowa, here's how Iowa Iowa wrote it. They said, the definition of wholesaling is when you hold an equitable interest but not legal title in a residential property for the purpose of selling the equitable interest to a buyer. K. Now to me, the way I the the way I read that to define is the equitable interest they're referring to is in in holding a contract that you don't have legal title to that you're trying to sell.

If you're trying to sell a property by nature of having that equitable interest, but not legal title. So to me, the not legal title is kind of a key term there. And then but then also this introduces, well, what about a double close? Mhmm. It brings it throws that into the wind because, technically, a double close would be not legal title.

Mhmm. Right? Because your BC contract, you don't have legal title yet. Right.

Steve: You don't. So

Jerry: that's kind of a problem, isn't it?

Steve: It is a problem. And as we were talking about this the other day, I I I was and this is the reason why, like, I wanted you on the show. Like, I wanna talk about all these things. Like, these are kind of conversations that not everyone's having.

Jerry: No one's having these conversations.

Steve: Particularly, you know, again, not to toot our own horns with people with, you know, brokers experience and, like, title experience and all these other things. I mean, I'm sure you've been subject to to a handful of lawsuits. I've been in a lot of different lawsuits where we had to explain our positions in these in these situations. So, yeah, I have a property. I'm buying Jerry's house on 123 Main Street.

Steve Trang and or assignee. I'm gonna sell it to someone else on a double close, but I don't have ownership yet.

Jerry: Mhmm.

Steve: I can close on it. I could do the double close so that when they close on it, I will have title. But in this language here, I can't even market it

Jerry: Yes.

Steve: Because I don't have title yet.

Jerry: That's correct.

Steve: You spent countless weeks going back and forth with the homeowner only to lose a deal because the seller changed their mind, another wholesaler made an unreasonable offer, or what the seller needs from the sale, you just can't pay. Now imagine you've got the ultimate control on a property that you just locked up, meaning you're on title and every decision has to go through you, eliminating virtually every external threat. That's why the installment method was created. Through installment payments, you have full control of the property as your name is now on the title. Any decision the seller wants to make now has to be approved by you.

No longer can they pull out equity, go with another buyer, or change their mind. Imagine combining the best creative financing with the flexibility of marketing the property on the MLS to collect the most amount of revenue possible, all while having total control of the property. This is just the tip of the iceberg. The concept here is simple, but implementing is challenging. So visit wholesale2024.com to learn more so that you'll never have another deal blow up.

So when I talk to I've talked to

Jerry: a couple different lawyers. You and I know, Gary Mhmm. Picking in in, South Carolina. I've talked to a lawyer in in, Nebraska because their their laws that that regulation's been there since 2022, so we have a couple years. And and what they're telling me, like, the overarching thing is all of these strategies we do where you don't actually have legal title, that's the problem.

Mhmm. So to me, that's novations. That's double closes. That's assignments. What we're doing is we're we're finding a way to make money in a real estate transaction on a property I don't own yet.

Steve: With with not much skin in the game.

Jerry: With no skin in the game. Some nonrefundable earnest money or $10 or whatever. That's the problem. Mhmm. And that's what they're trying to close.

What what there's they're they're defining that as wholesaling. Now we we have our own ways of thinking, well, it's an ovation. It's not wholesaling. What they're doing is they're defining wholesaling as any of these things where you have an equitable interest by nature of a contract

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: That you're trying to sell where you don't have legal title yet.

Steve: Right. So a common strategy I mean, we have some rock stars that came on the show in the last year. They're just absolutely crushing it with attorney in facts. Right? Where they're listening it's like a novation, but it's not an novation.

Jerry: Okay.

Steve: But they're listening on the MLS. Right? You sign attorney in fact. Would you kind of put that in that same category as well?

Jerry: If you don't have legal title, yeah. Yeah. That would fall into that category. Yeah. And look at how South Carolina worded theirs.

So so South Carolina said, having a contractual interest in purchasing residential real estate. So just that alone, like a contractual interest.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: Okay. Well, what does that mean? Well, that's any of these things we're doing, a contractual interest Mhmm. In a property. So it says having a contractual interest in purchasing residential real estate from a property owner, then marketing the property for sale to a different buyer prior to taking legal ownership of the property.

Yeah. That's their definition of wholesaling. That right there. That's all the things we do.

Steve: Yeah. And it's it's a it's almost like they have someone on the inside figuring this out. They may. You know? So, like, the one I passed in Arizona is, like, 2047, whatever.

HP twenty four seven. I think that's what it was. You know, like, when that went down before it passed, I I saw it because it was, someone sent me a text message. Like, hey. What's this bill?

I was like, I don't know. Let me look at it. I read it. It's like, I know the guy that wrote this bill. And I'm reading this, and I sent my text message.

Like, hey. This language here?

Jerry: No teeth.

Steve: No teeth. You're not protect you're not protecting anybody on this deal. Right. And he's like, well, how would you write us?

Jerry: Like, I'm not I'm not telling you.

Steve: I am not gonna be the one that's gonna like, how do you, like, regulate wholesale?

Jerry: Steve Chambers, you'd have a bullet you'd have a target on your back whenever you go. Real estate disruption.

Steve: I am not gonna be the one to tell you how to write this contract or write the the the new laws, in the state of Arizona. How to

Jerry: Well, even Arizona and and Indiana or, Wisconsin did the same thing, which was it's so funny to me because I get disclosing to a seller that you're a wholesaler, but they make you disclose to the cash buyer

Steve: That's hysterical.

Jerry: Yeah. So you have to in in the in Wisconsin now, same with Arizona, your assignment of contract has to disclose that you're a wholesaler.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: Well, it's an assignment of contract. How is that not like, what is the how does the cash buyer not know that?

Steve: Well, there are some states, though, that assignment contract won't work for a double close. So you actually have to have, from whatever from my my understanding Yeah. An actual purchase contract. Yeah. An actual purchase on agreement, not an assignment of contract.

Yeah. So That's how

Jerry: a lot of states do that. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. But, yeah, it's funny that you have to disclose that. So let's talk about them, like, other ways then to pivot. So I had, had Devin Robinson come on, I wanna say back in November, maybe December. Right?

And we're saying, okay. Winter is coming. We need to pivot. Right? And so here was our plan.

I wanna see, you know, what your thoughts on this if if this if you think it's a bad idea. So, everything we just talked about here as far as equitable interest. Right?

Jerry: Well, before before you do, can we talk about South Carolina and the second part of that bill? Yes. Because I think this is gonna be great for what? For finding solutions. Because what South Carolina said is not only did they did they find wholesaling as a contractual interest, your marketing before you own the property, which basically means all these all these things we do, you need a license.

Now I thought I did a YouTube video on this, and I thought they were complete morons. Like, what a bunch of idiots. Because the second part of the law says a real estate brokerage firm and its sub agents are prohibited from engaging in, representing others in, or assisting others in the practice of wholesaling. So we here's wholesaling. We want you to get a license.

Oh, and by the way, if you're licensed, you cannot wholesale. That's what South Carolina did.

Steve: So if you want to wholesale, you have to get licensed. If you're licensed, you're not at wholesale.

Jerry: I mean, if this passes, which it passed the senate on the fourth of this month, March 4, it passed the senate, which means it's gotta pass the house and then signed by the governor, and that is law. That in South Carolina is stopping wholesaling. I mean, just do people realize what's happening right now? Like, South Carolina found a way And and so I asked, Gary Pickin about it. I'm like, why?

This is so dumb. He's like, no. It's not. It's genius. Mhmm.

And it's so genius that the other states are probably gonna follow suit.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: Because what they did is they brought a whole they brought a whole ceiling under the commission by light by requiring licensing, and then they said you can't do it if you're licensed. And that's

Steve: what we're saying earlier. Like, brokers whoever brokers says the law, whoever department real estate says the law, and then you didn't put this as a law by itself because there's some constitutionality situations. Right? If I wanna wholesale you this phone, no one can get in my way. Right?

Hey, Jerry. I have access to this phone. I have it under contract for $10. Would you like to buy it from me for $20? That's contract law.

That's constitutional. Right? You got the, was it commercial code or whatever. Right? Mhmm.

But that's that's baked in the constitutional law. From day one. Yeah. Right. But if I say, hey.

Like, in order for you to wholesale this phone, you need to be registered with some telecommunications, registry or, some sort of regulatory body. And then a regulatory body says you're not allowed to wholesale iPhones.

Jerry: They just did it. They just stopped it. They just stopped it. And there

Steve: was no now there's no more question of constitutionality unless someone wants to fight that battle.

Jerry: And take it all the way to the Supreme Court and undo it. Right? Which

Steve: Who's got that kind of money?

Jerry: I mean, maybe that's what ends up happening at some point in time, but what South Carolina did is they brought it under their jurisdiction and then made it illegal to do it. Right. So what is gonna happen now? And so if this passes, what is gonna happen in South Carolina? And this is so I'm looking at it like, okay.

Well, if I'm transacting to South Carolina if I if I'm a wholesaler in South Carolina right now, I'm very concerned.

Steve: Right.

Jerry: If and this is virtual people that wholesale there.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: If you're local and active there in a backyard market. But it's not just South Carolina because you think you think everybody else is gonna everyone else has been trying to figure this out, and South Carolina figured it out.

Steve: Well, I was I was on the phone with RJ Bates about this, I wanna say maybe two, three months ago. And because he wholesales nationwide. Yeah. And, they had a deal in South Carolina that they tried to wholesale, and they posted it on InvestorLift. And his dispo rep got a cease and desist notice Yep.

Delivered to his home in an apartment complex. So someone looked up who his disposition person was and served a cease and desist notice at their home, not at, like, RJ's office.

Jerry: Well, think how easy this is gonna be. You just go on investor lift. You look at all the inventory that's on there. You look up who who who those people are, and you send them. So the steps are a cease and desist, and then you and then if you do it again, it's fines, and then it's up to jail.

Yeah. Like, it's a big deal. It's not like you it's not like you just like, oh, I'll just pay a thousand dollar fine and keep doing my thing.

Steve: Yeah. There's no there's no loopholes. Like, it's worth it to me. Like, for me, like, driving in the carpool lane, that's a loophole. Right?

$500 every time is worth it. And that's a loophole. Yeah. No. This is, like, serious consequences.

Jerry: This is a big deal. Everyone should be talking this should be the talk of our industry is what South Carolina is doing right now.

Steve: Yeah. This is

Jerry: a big deal.

Steve: Like I said, my intent after everything said and done, this should be the, you know, our biggest episode. So, so we got Devin Robinson. Right? He's in North Carolina. K.

But he holds out North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia. Right? And so what he had to do in South Carolina was he had to do an installment sale. Right? Because he was doing he would do novations.

Yeah. Right? But this includes novations. They couldn't do novations anymore. So what he did was he got an agreement for sale where he was legally added to the title.

Right? So he's not on the deed, he's on the title, and with that, and by being virtue of being on title, equitable ownership. Now you can control the transaction. Now you are operating as the owner, and now you have the right to market the property. Because you have legal ownership.

You have legal ownership.

Jerry: So you can now resell. Yeah. So I so, ideally, if I'm following the steps with this, you would meet a seller. You would have a have a a purchase agreement to an installment. Mhmm.

Steve: So it'd

Jerry: be probably a specialized type of contract. Right? Purchase agreement. Mhmm. You'd run title, make sure you know what's going on there.

Close in seven or ten days with title.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: With an installment, which could be a in other states, it'd be a a contract for deed, land contract, all the different thing. Yeah.

Steve: Yep.

Jerry: It's basically where the where the where it's held in escrow until you pay it off. Right. Now you turn around and go market it like you normally would.

Steve: Exactly.

Jerry: Either MLS or however,

Steve: you

Jerry: find your buyer, and now you resell it, and you pay off that agreed amount Right. From with the seller when you when you resell.

Steve: Right.

Jerry: And no one can say anything because you have legal

Steve: You have equitable ownership.

Jerry: You have equitable ownership. Yeah. That's the idea there. Right.

Steve: So instead of having equitable interest, you have equitable ownership. And, like, that was, like, when these guys talked to me about, like, you know, Devon's talking about here's something we're doing. I was like, I like this because installment sales have been around since eighteen hundreds. We had to do the research. We're around the eighteen hundreds.

IRS publication five twenty seven actually has a section on installment sales. It's like, I feel pretty good about that.

Jerry: And there's a lot of case law already that protects it.

Steve: Yeah. Case law because

Jerry: it's been around forever.

Steve: In almost all of these days. Mhmm. Yeah. So that was if you guys are you know, when we're talking about wholesale2024.com, you check out the episode with Devin Robinson, we explain how they kinda came onto it. And I I personally think this is the future.

I was talking to Tom Kroll about this on September Mhmm. Of of last year. I was like, this is probably gonna be the next biggest thing.

Jerry: Yeah. Now devil's advocate, you know, that's not super clean. Like, there's definitely things that could go wrong there. You know? Are you leaving the owner in the property?

How are you getting them out? You know, it's introducing some more steps, but so is innovation. Like, innovation's got all kinds of moving parts.

Steve: You know?

Jerry: So it's just the way we adapt, I guess. Right?

Steve: If there's one thing we know for sure in real estate is that's chaotic. We had this deal. We were gonna film some content around it, or we're gonna publish a video about it, but our server got hacked because we lost all the footage. But we bought a property. Someone else bought the property after us.

And this is a situation where the guy was on the run from the ATF. Like, we bought we we signed the contract where he said, this contract is contingent upon the seller not going to prison. Like, that's the actual language. And team called me on a Sunday, like, how do we write this in a contract? Right?

Subject to it's contingent on him not going to prison. Right?

Jerry: Why not? Why couldn't he go to prison?

Steve: Oh, well, he was hoping he could beat the case. Oh. He was on trial.

Jerry: So if he won, then he wouldn't have to sell. Right.

Steve: Okay.

Jerry: Right. I'm with you.

Steve: So that was his intent. While facing trial, he got wind. The ATF was coming, so he

Jerry: High tailed out of town. Yeah.

Steve: So there's been a pause to get a hold of this guy. So we finally get a hold of this guy. We find him in prison, right, which is incredibly difficult to find a person in prison. Right? So we finally get ahold of him in prison.

Jerry: He's not on a list, you know, for that. Yeah. Yeah. You can't you can't trace that.

Steve: Yeah. Sell 24. So we finally get ahold of the guy and only to find out that while he was in prison, he's been talking to a girlfriend who signed the contract with another person who also owned a title company. They recorded over our memorandum. Right?

So, like, we're looking forward to go in town and winning this title suit only to find out that the guy that bought it, the guy that owned the title company and wholesaled it, they burned the house down the day before close of escrow. So the property who's who's whose insurance is covering that? I would argue probably nobody. Right? The buyer's insurance isn't gonna cover it.

They didn't own it. Seller's insurance. He's in prison. He doesn't care. He got his money.

Yeah. But there's this whole mess. Right? And everyone's, like, freaking out. The team's falling apart, and they're like, Steve, why are you not stressed?

Yeah. I was like, it's real estate. Like

Jerry: Yeah. It's just this is another day another day, another deal. Right? It's just what we do If we're innovative. I mean, if we're innovative I mean, the thing is is, like, the ultra successful investors that I know, everyone I've ever known that's really successful, they they they adapt quickly.

Steve: Yeah.

Jerry: Right? You're all we're always adapting.

Steve: You have to.

Jerry: You have to. Not just for market cycles. Like, we have to adapt for that, but we're ingrained in this business if you've been around very long that what worked yesterday may not work today. Mhmm. You know, you may have the most amazing marketing channel that's killing it today.

Mhmm. And tomorrow, it doesn't work anymore Right. For whatever reasons. And you switch and you and you adjust quickly.

Steve: We saw that with texting. Right? Like, direct mail direct mail was so effective, and the texting came along. And direct mail became grossly ineffective.

Jerry: Because it was so much more expensive.

Steve: Right. And then texting, it became less effective. Now it's where it was really effective.

Jerry: Yeah. Direct mail. We're gonna go yeah. Back to direct mail. Yeah.

I mean, there's another way I'm looking at it too. And one of the things that I'm doing right now to pivot with all of this is, just good old fashioned take it down. Mhmm. Take legal title and resell it. Mhmm.

Now the challenge with that is the capital because now you need sixty day money. Alright. Right? It's not quite transactional funding because it's not same day, next day. It's not a rehab loan because I'm not fixing it up.

I don't need the money for six months. I just needed to take it down, trash it out, clean it, new pictures back on the market. Yeah. And then and then, you know, if you do it right, you you contract it so it moves quick and you resell it, And nobody has an issue with that whatsoever because all it is is we call it whole tailing. Like, that's a common name for it.

Steve: Today. It wasn't when we started.

Jerry: Yeah. It wasn't called. That was just called real estate investing, you know, like buying and selling. Yeah. But it's literally I mean, it's really open door.

Isn't this open door? Yeah. That's all open doors. They're just institutional, and they can do it. And but what do they do?

They go in and they they buy it 80¢ on the dollar. They sell it for retail value, and that's all they're doing.

Steve: Right.

Jerry: So for me, I'm like, how do I become a mini open door? Right? How do I get capital and structure the capital so that I'm so that it's it's available. It's quick. I can sit down with the seller now, and I can say to that seller, look.

I'm the buyer. Mhmm. I can give you earnest money. I can show you proof of funds. I can waive contingencies.

I'm a legit buyer. So now you can be very aggressive. You can have a really, you you know, teeth in your contract. Wholesaling, we gotta have all these contingencies and $10 earnest money because we don't know if we can find a buyer.

Steve: Right.

Jerry: So we need a way to get out of that contract. Right? Well, not if you're taking it down, not if you're the buyer. Mhmm. So I'm really looking heavily going forward at, like, okay.

Well, how do I whole tail now more? How do I get set up with capital? Because capital is the limiting factor.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, at this point. Right?

Jerry: Everything else is sort of the same. Yeah. Like, motivated sellers are motivated sellers. Like, marketing and lead gen are the same. But now instead of trying to do some sort of a not own legal title type of deal Mhmm.

How do I take legal title? Don't premarket. Don't get a predetermined buyer. Yeah. Trash it out.

Resell it at that point.

Steve: Yep. Yeah. Anyway

Jerry: like the installment method. I mean, for me, I'm gonna be really heavily because the install that idea there, Steve, it reintroduces a way for newbies to get back into the business.

Steve: Right.

Jerry: Because now you don't need money. Right. Right? Other than maybe a thousand bucks or whatever to down payment to that seller.

Steve: Yeah.

Jerry: But now what are you doing? You're somehow getting yourself into the legal title situation

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: And then reselling.

Steve: Right. But you're on the hook. You're the owner. You have responsibilities. You have repercussions.

There are consequences. Right? And then that goes back to skin in the game. Comment with

Jerry: You have skin in the game. A moment ago. Now now what so there's things that can that's that's not really super clean. Like like, doing an assignment is just so clean. Yeah.

But if if it's what we have to work with, it's what we have to work with, and we'll get better at it and we'll perfect it.

Steve: Yeah. And then just going back to capitalization, you know, I think that's one of the things that, a lot of people are scared of. Right? So what is your strategy? Now, obviously, it's easy because you have a brand.

Right? I mean, like, it's not hard to find Jerry Norton online. But what if someone who has never been asking for money, what are they doing here?

Jerry: I mean, you have to make raising capital front and center. And here's the thing about it is a lot of people are intimidated by raising capital, but, really, the amount of capital you actually need to raise is very small because here's why. Institutional money is readily available for everybody right now today, whether you have experience or not at 80 to 90% of the purchase. Mhmm. Right?

So you go to any hard money lender, and they're gonna give you 80 to 90%. They want you to bring in that 10 to 20% as skin in the game down payment.

Steve: Right.

Jerry: And they'll charge you twelve percent and two points. Like, it's just it's everywhere.

Steve: Not in Arizona, but most of this.

Jerry: Arizona $14,000. Oh, cheaper.

Steve: Thousand bucks, 10%.

Jerry: Yeah. Okay. So even cheaper.

Steve: Even cheaper.

Jerry: But the the market rate is, like, twelve percent and two points.

Steve: Two and twelve is pretty standard.

Jerry: Pretty standard. Yeah. Around I mean, like, that's normal. Some some higher, but but my point is you don't have to raise any money to get 80%. Let's just call it 8080% of the money.

Well, okay. If I'm buying a deal for a 100,000, 80,000 of that money is already sitting on the sidelines for you. Yeah. You just gotta go find lending home or whatever, whoever the lender is in town that's doing institutional lending. Yeah.

So what's the real issue? The real issue is the other 20,000. So that's where private money comes into play. But private money for 20,000 to be in a 60 deal, to me, is still easy to raise. Like, you go to someone and you're like, hey.

I'm gonna give you 12% on your money, a couple points. I need your $20. I'll pay it back in sixty days. Mhmm. You're a second position, so you're you're you're exposed a little here.

But, look, I'm buying this for a 100. I'm gonna resell it for $1.50. And so that's where, for me, what I'm doing is I'm I'm gonna be I'm gonna be focusing heavily on raising capital, mostly private money, and not that much of it because a couple $100,000 gets you in the game.

Steve: Right.

Jerry: You're doing five deals a month with a $100. Yeah. If it's $20 you know, under those numbers, it's $20 a pop. Use hard money for 80% private money to make up the difference. Now you're in the game.

Steve: Yeah. And, It's

Jerry: not as complicated as everybody thinks.

Steve: It's not. So where would you, if you were newer, recommend people go to find private money for the 20 k?

Jerry: My number one source of private money is IRA self directed IRA people.

Steve: Yeah.

Jerry: And where I go is I look at someone anybody who's worked in corporate for ten to twenty years

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: Has anywhere from 25 to a 100,000 in an IRA.

Steve: Yeah.

Jerry: You show them how to self direct it. Super easy to do. Mhmm. They go to one of these self directed custodians. Takes a week to smooth their IRA over, and now they can lend it to you on a deal.

Steve: Gotcha. So

Jerry: Really easy. And here's what's even better about it. That money, I get it 10%, no points, and I defer it because if it's if it's an IRA, if it's a self directed IRA, the payments to that person have to go back into the IRA account. They don't get to touch it. Right.

Because it's the IRA's money, not theirs. Now they own the IRA. By doing those transactions, like making monthly payments, all you're doing is increasing administrative fees.

Steve: You're making money for them.

Jerry: And it's just eating into their numbers. So I tell them, I say, look. We're gonna defer the payments. And when I sell the property in sixty days, I'm gonna pay back the principal, the accrued interest, and then all gets paid back on the payoff when we sell it protected by a lien. Right.

And that's how I get most of my 10 to 20%. I call it secondary money. Mhmm. And and I'm in the game.

Steve: Yeah. So self directed IRAs.

Jerry: Is it it for me is the number one. And that's the people that your your kids play soccer with. That's your neighbors. That's everybody around you. Most people have 25 to $100,000 in a self direct in an IRA Mhmm.

That they can self direct and lend you on real estate.

Steve: So let's talk about some strategies. So, you know, we just mentioned a moment ago how there's a big settlement with NAR. And co brokes are now it's unresolved exactly how it was gonna look, but it's not looking good. Right? For who?

For realtors. Yeah. Buyer agents. Yeah. Buyer agents particularly.

Yeah. Right? So Jerry, sophisticated investor, sees this information, and now is gonna go hunting on the MLS.

Jerry: Oh, yeah.

Steve: What's your strategy in hunting on MLS?

Jerry: And I'm gonna have a massive advantage over everybody else because now if you follow what's happening is the buyer's agent commission is, like, up for grabs as far as, like, okay. Now I have to have a broker agreement

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: A buyer broker agreement. That's one of the rules. I'm gonna have to negotiate my buyer's commission

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: Or the buy or the the buyer's agent's gonna have to negotiate his commission and figure out who's paying it.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: So for me as an investor, here's what I'm gonna do. And I'm I'm excited about this because I'm gonna be going to listing agents that have properties that I'm interested in offering on. Mhmm.

Steve: And I'm

Jerry: gonna go to that listing agent unrepresented, and I'm gonna say, hey. I don't need to ask the seller to cover the buyer's agent. In fact, I don't even have a representation. I'll let you represent me. What's your number?

Steve: Mhmm. You

Jerry: 3%? Great. I'll pay the 3%. You know, we don't have to ask the seller. I'll pay it.

And now that now that listing agent is doing dual agency. Now this is where you're allowed to do dual agency.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: But now it's no longer, like, a given 3%. That's what we used to do. We called it the double dip. Right? You'd let them have that 3%.

Steve: They got both sides.

Jerry: Now it's like, well, not only not only can we have a discussion about what you're gonna charge me to be my buyer's agent representation on this on your own listing Yeah. But we don't even have to ask the seller to pay it because I can pay it. Mhmm. Now I gotta bake that number into the deal, obviously. Like, it's it's a cost now of that.

But this is gonna open the door for investors to create even stronger and more strategic relationships with listing agents. Yeah. Because you can now bring the buyer's agency to that listing agent, and now it's up to you to negotiate whatever fees you wanna pay Mhmm. And charge.

Steve: Yeah. So in this scenario, you had a homeowner. He's got two offers. You got one from Jerry, and you're not asking for concessions. Yep.

You're not asking how to pay for commissions. You're not asking for contingencies or very bare minimal contingencies. Right? Just I just need a contractor inspector to walk through. That's it.

Yep. Very, very limited contingencies. And you got another buyer who might pay more but wants you to pay for commissions, concessions

Jerry: Mhmm.

Steve: And all sorts of contingencies, including Yeah. Financing Financing contingencies, which might last which does last all the way to the close of escrow. Which will the homeowner go with? The guaranteed cash offer that can close whenever he wants to close was other one where he Yeah. It's even though the net will be higher, as a matter of principle, he's not gonna wanna pay the concessions and the commission.

Like, this is the way the way human dynamics work. Yeah. And he has to wait for.

Jerry: We've set up here now where investors can completely annihilate retail buyer competition.

Steve: Yeah. It's really sad, because I had a conversation, on one of my coaching calls. Right? You know, fortunately, I get to coach a lot of people in in in real estate and sales. And they're asking, like, hey.

Like, in your opinion, who wins here? It's like Mhmm.

Jerry: We do. The investor.

Steve: The investor wins. Right? Buyer agent loses, listing agent, most of them will be gone, but the ones that stick around are gonna be rich. Homeowners are gonna lose. Buyers are definitely losing.

Yeah. And the investor wins.

Jerry: How is a retail buyer gonna compete with investors? When they have to ask the seller or figure out some way to get their buyer's agent paid.

Steve: Not to mention, you know, I don't know if this is gonna go anywhere, but, like, there are murmurs that the Department of Justice can get involved Mhmm. And say that they're gonna make it because of this ruling that buyer agents cannot be paid by the sellers. Mhmm. And that means the buyer has to pay it. That's gonna be interesting.

Jerry: Yeah. Because buyers can barely qualify as it is and get into the now they gotta come up with a buyer's agent commission too.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, like, we think of expressions. Right? Like, I don't know if you heard this one. Drive till you can buy or drive till you can qualify, which is just like, well, I can't afford it in Phoenix.

Maybe I'll go out to Tempe. Can't afford it here. It'll go to Mesa. Can't afford it here. Well, there's always Apache Junction.

Right? Or I can't live in Chandler, so I'll go to Queen Creek. Not can't afford Queen Creek. I'm gonna go to Santan Valley. Well, even Santan Valley is pretty tough.

I'm gonna go to Florence. Like, drive to you qualify was a problem Mhmm. Because people don't have as much liquid cash. Yeah. And so you're gonna come in here.

Again, Jerry's cash offer, noncontingent, no concessions, no commissions, and you're paying the realtor commission.

Jerry: And and I'm making I'm turning the listing agent also into a buyer's agent. So now they're highly incentivized

Steve: Right.

Jerry: To work with me. Now I'm not saying they're gonna be unethical, but come on. They're gonna make they're gonna make twice as much money.

Steve: They're gonna be Working with Jerry.

Jerry: They're gonna be calling Jerry on their next deal. Like, it's how you create. I look at all of this, Steve. Like, every given day, somehow, we have to create a competitive advantage.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: If you wanna be

Steve: if you

Jerry: wanna be good at what you do, you have to find a way to stand out in the market. Yeah. That that dual agency double dip strategy is gonna be the new way to stand out and really have a leg up over everybody else if you can.

Steve: Yeah. So every time we do something to benefit other people or benefit general public, it it does not work out in their favor.

Jerry: Alright.

Steve: So I wanna talk about something else here. I heard sometime from a couple of influencers. They're pretty grumpy. And they were saying

Jerry: And me.

Steve: Well, not you because I didn't know it was you yet. They were pretty upset that their PropStream affiliate revenue was going down. And I was like, why is it going down? Like, well, there's this thing with Propwire coming out, to which I follow-up with, what's Propwire? And, like, there's this system for getting leads for free.

Yeah. What's Propwire? So

Jerry: I've come from a software background. Propwire is not my first software. So I have a software called Flipster, and it's this great little software for wholesalers and flippers. It's a CRM and, you know, has deal analyzers and digital contracts and budget tracking, all these cool tools. And I started it in 2014, so I've had it for a while, you know, overseas development team.

And there came a point about two years ago now, I think, where I was like, I wanna create a software, but I want it to be, like, not just this little niche software like I've got, but how do I now build, like, a world class software that can really have massive impact? At the same time as that kind of thought process or that idea, one of the things that I'm really, really good at, one of my superpowers is is email marketing.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: I don't know if most people may not know this, but I generate 20,000 opt ins monthly from just free things I give away or tools or scripts or whatever. And so I build this massive email list. And and my philosophy is anybody that's in the, you know, education space or any type of info marketing product space, software, whatever, you think that your social media is like you it's yours. It's not yours. The platform owns those followers or subscribers.

Steve: Right. You know, I have

Jerry: 500,000 subscribers on YouTube, but I'm not delusional that YouTube owns those, not me. I can't reach out to any one of them directly. Right?

Steve: No. And

Jerry: they could turn me off tomorrow, and I'm done. Right. And we've seen that happen.

Steve: Countless times.

Jerry: Right? So my objective is to build a a list of people. And so with with Propwire, what we said is we said, well, what if we came out with a software that had all the same data and we made it available to search and download for free? And so that's what we did. We it's kinda like the Zillow of the data.

Mhmm. The seller data world is kinda how I think about it. And but I it had to be world class. It had to have a really amazing UI. So I went out and I I got some of the best developers I could find, invested millions into the UI and into the data, and we launched this prop wire.

And what it is is it's literally unlimited data that you can search and download for free. We do not charge a subscription to do that.

Steve: Why would you do such a thing? We need to hire nine salespeople in the next five weeks. We launched our done for you sales service just a month ago, and the demand for it has been absolutely crazy. We have all these people reaching out to us saying, our sales service has been so helpful for them. Please get us more salespeople.

If you are in high ticket sales or looking to

Jerry: get into that space, if you want a calendar filled up with people raising their hands saying, call me at this time, please sell me, I wanna be sold to by a highly experienced salesperson, we are looking for you to have that role. We wanna take people who are good and make them great. People who wanna be held accountable the same way Michael Jordan would want his coach to hold him accountable to take him to that next level.

Steve: So if you want Ian Ross or myself to train you to get better at sales, if you wanna be able to control your income, decide exactly how much money you make, and you wanna work at a company where you value and appreciate it, we encourage you click the link below. However, we're only hiring superstars. If you're not a plus caliber, don't click below.

Jerry: Here's why. I'm playing the long game, and this most people won't really maybe maybe some people will grasp this concept, but I will lose money month over on this project again and again for as long as I can write the check forever as long as I'm building the user base.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: I want the user base. Mhmm. And why would you not even if you still like your other account that you're paying for, why would you not also have this? It's free. Mhmm.

So in time, I think I'll have millions of users using the platform. Mhmm. Now you do have to register to set up your free account.

Steve: Right.

Jerry: So now what am I doing? I'm building this massive list. In less than a year, we have over a 100 I think we have a 120,000 users in under a year on the system. And so now the real value to me is the users that are using the system. And we've introduced monetization.

Like, we have skip tracing that you now can pay for. It it's 10¢, not 12¢, so it's a better deal. Yeah. And, we're doing a really special thing for for your audience when we when when you wanna talk about that where you can get free skip tracing included. And it's a really cool thing that we're doing right now or we wanna offer to do right now.

Steve: Yeah.

Jerry: So, really, my endgame is like, okay. How do I make it amazing? How do I make the data good? How do I make it so that everybody wants this software and uses this software and build just a massive user base?

Steve: Yeah. Yeah. It sounds totally insane.

Jerry: It's a little crazy. Like, I'll either be a genius or a complete idiot. Yeah. I mean One of the two.

Steve: Time will tell. Dan Kennedy is someone I've talked about on the show quite a bit. Right? Brilliant, brilliant marketer. They're the best the the godfather of direct response marketing.

I know he's at the first. Yeah. But I feel like he kinda made it mainstream. Yeah. And, you know, his thing was the guy that can, lose the guy that can pay the least I'm sorry.

The guy that can pay the most for the lead and be profitable will always win.

Jerry: Mhmm.

Steve: I kinda feel like that's what you're doing here. Mhmm. You you can pay the most because you're losing money every month.

Jerry: I'm losing money every month. Yeah.

Steve: You can pay the most to get everyone's data. Right? Is that accurate?

Jerry: Yeah. Get all the real estate users.

Steve: Yeah.

Jerry: Yeah. Get access to all the real estate. And what's great about it too is it's not just, like, wholesalers, but, it's anybody looking for seller data. So a lot of real estate agents and resiliers, inspectors. Yeah.

All the people that need that that look for real estate data are user.

Steve: Yeah. The entire ecosystem. Yeah. Right? And I don't know.

Like, is this gonna be limited to only homeowners? I mean, at some point, or real estate? I mean, at some point, like, solar, roofing?

Jerry: We have some of those. Yeah.

Steve: So we have

Jerry: some people that are in some of those businesses that Yeah.

Steve: So you're gonna get owners. Oh, like, you're gonna be this conglomerate of data Yeah. More or less.

Jerry: And I'm okay to lose money or put all the money back into it to make it better and Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. I mean, probably they're gonna sold something for, like, 150,000,000 or something.

Jerry: 75,000,000.

Steve: Somewhere around there. Right? So there's value in just having the data. Yeah. Is that the long play?

Jerry: Yeah. It's the user base. Yeah.

Steve: I mean

Jerry: and and that's not there's nothing new there. Like, if you think about, you know, Instagram, they they made no money for however long.

Steve: Yeah. Or Facebook.

Jerry: And and why did they sell for billions of dollars? Because they had a user base.

Steve: Yeah.

Jerry: So the user base is in the real is the real value, not in the subscription.

Steve: Gotcha. Gotcha. Man, that's this is this crazy thing about so if you guys are interested, sellerleadsforfree.com. I still think it's ridiculous. Seller leads for free dot com.

Jerry: So And what we're doing with that is if you guys go to that seller what is it? Sellerleadsforfree.com. Forfree.com. We're doing a special promo. If you go to that link, you're gonna get for $97 a month.

So that is we call it gold. It's a subscription model now for $97 a month, but you get 250 free skip traces Mhmm. With that $97 a month. So if you think about it, that's what? $300 a month value Yeah.

For $97. Right. Again, why I'm okay to lose money Mhmm. To to build a strong user base using the platform.

Steve: But that's only if they want the skip tracing. Right?

Jerry: Yeah. So you pay you well Is it Everything else is still free. All the all the sellers is still free.

Steve: Yeah. All the sellers' data is free. If you want to skip trace it

Jerry: You get 250 a month for free. And, again, we only charge if the skip trace is successful. So if it's if you don't get a clear skip trace, then you don't pay it. So you get 250, free skip traces a month for the $97 a month subscription.

Steve: And you never talked about this.

Jerry: And that's for that. You gotta go to that, though, to get that.

Steve: Yeah. Sellerleadsforfree.com. And you and I were talking about this. They're like, why aren't more influencers talking about this?

Jerry: Yeah. Well, maybe, you know, it's free. So yeah. So why would someone promote it if they're getting an affiliate commission from

Steve: I'm getting 50% from PropStream.

Jerry: Why would I? Yeah. Why would I promote this? Yeah. But here's the thing.

I tell people that have if if if somebody else like you that has an audience has the foresight, if you cookie in now or if you if you bank subscriptions now, as we roll out things, you'll start well, because we are gonna monetize. Right? We're gonna offer things. Mhmm. We already do skip tracing.

You know, as things as the user base grows and we offer, you know, asset protection or whatever, Mhmm. Whatever things are out there lending. Lending is one of our biggest things on the platform. We're gonna offer lending. Yeah.

Any one of those users that then monetizes in one of those ancillary products is a commission to you. So even though it might not be there today, here's what I tell people. Everybody's gonna have an account at some point. Why would you not start getting yours now?

Steve: Right.

Jerry: Because it's gonna become it's gonna snowball where it's like, well, why would I not have it? It's free. Exactly.

Steve: So, you're subjecting yourself probably to a fair amount of animosity. Animosity. Yeah. Also, why do this?

Jerry: I don't it's it's definitely disrupting the industry. Real disruption is the name of

Steve: the show.

Jerry: I mean, you get it. Right? Yeah. Like, disrupt disruption. I feel like if some this is just how innovation works.

Like, this is how technology works.

Steve: Yeah.

Jerry: If I don't do it, someone else is gonna do it, and and, you know, then they'll be mad at that person.

Steve: But Right.

Jerry: We don't do things just because it might make somebody else obsolete or, you know, ruin their model. I just feel like it's a it's the opportunity, and I wanted something that was impactful. You know, sometimes you do things very few things in my life. Everything's, like, transactional. I do a deal.

Great. It's about the deal. This is actually something that I'm really behind that is changing an entire industry. Yeah. So it's kinda fun to be behind something like that.

Steve: So if I go to the the URL, right, seller leads sellerleadsforfree.com, I go there. I register. What am I getting?

Jerry: So for that, I mean, you can just go to Propwire and do it for free. But if you go to that link there, you'll you'll you'll join a subscription for $97. You're gonna get the 250 free skip traces. We also do a weekly, small group coaching like Zoom.

Steve: Mhmm. Mhmm. And you

Jerry: get on there. We show how to do do different things. We answer questions. So you get that as well. And I give away an entire library of really cool resources as, like, a bonus.

Mhmm.

Steve: So you

Jerry: get all that. And there's two other upgrades that get I forget what it is. Like, 5,000 skip traces and 10,000 skip traces.

Steve: Gotcha.

Jerry: So the goal there with that what's the goal there? Why why offer 250, or I'm sorry. Not 250, 2,500. I might have said that wrong earlier. It's 2,500 free skip traces for $97 a month.

Mhmm. Why? I wanna get the active investors that are doing deals, and they're spending money on skip tracing, and they're doing cold calling. They're doing all the things. I just want them actively on the system.

Mhmm. So I'll lose money to get active users

Steve: Alright.

Jerry: Using the skip tracing and using the data.

Steve: For what purpose?

Jerry: To grow a user base of active users.

Steve: Gotcha. Yeah.

Jerry: That's the endgame.

Steve: That's it. You're just gonna be this giant data house.

Jerry: And I'm yeah. And so if if you get an affiliate commission for that and now you're promoting it, it'll hopefully help grow the platform.

Steve: Yeah. Well, I mean, that that's for me. Right? Yeah.

Jerry: But

Steve: I'm talking about for you. Like, the perp the overarching purpose because like I said, you know, I was talking to, someone a few months ago, and he's like, man, like, prop stream revenue or affiliate revenue, like, cut in half. Like Yeah. That sucks. Yeah.

Right?

Jerry: Yeah. And they're, you know, they're definitely scared about it. Right? Like Yeah. It's I'm getting noticed for it.

Mhmm. But I honestly feel like we'll have a 2,000,000, multimillion users on the platform.

Steve: Yeah. So what's the time? So what's the vision? Tell me about user bases. Right?

Industry industry wise. So wholesalers, obviously. Right? Yep. Flipping Master TV.

Right? You got, like, 500,000 subscribers. Insane. Aspirational is more than 10 x mine.

Jerry: So you

Steve: have flippers and wholesalers. Realtors eventually

Jerry: Mhmm.

Steve: Appraisers Mhmm. And then we were saying potentially other home services.

Jerry: Yeah. Yeah. So it could be solar or past or anybody that's that's that's trying to target homeowners. They would like that data as well.

Steve: Yeah. And it's interesting because I I we have a lot of people inside the the the real estate wholesaling flipping world who have now expanded outside and are seeing, like, holy crap. The things we do are innovative because the margins are large. But a lot a lot of other industries are still somewhat antiquated. I mean, I can speak for myself.

When I went from the realtor world to the wholesaler world, like, this is a business.

Jerry: Night and day.

Steve: This is, like Yeah. The the assembly line of leads. Right? Like

Jerry: In the marketing we do, like, we're light years ahead of most real estate agents. Like, they don't even know how to follow-up or, like, anything. Yeah. And here we are, like, legit running legit businesses with wholesale.

Steve: And what I'm hearing right now, from some of my colleagues is, like, HVAC is, like, this new thing. Right? Solar has been around for some time, and, like, I I kinda felt for some time, like like, our Mormon friends have, like, cornered that market. Yeah. Right?

Solar? Solar? Yeah. Right? And that's the feeling I get, you know, and I say this as I'm playing basketball with a lot of Mormon friends.

Yeah.

Jerry: Well, the return missionaries, they're used

Steve: to door to door. Door to door. They're the best at it. Yeah. There's no one better qualified to

Jerry: sell They did it for two years every day selling Jesus.

Steve: Selling Jesus. How

Jerry: hard is that?

Steve: Yeah. Right? So, but HVAC seems to be the new thing. So any any potential there? Like

Jerry: Oh, for sure. Yeah. I mean, all and what and what's great about it is is we're trying to make that user experience really good.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: So I invest a lot in making sure like, my goal with it is you don't need any tutorial to know how to use

Steve: it. Mhmm.

Jerry: It's so intuitive that you can just oh, okay. Here's the

Steve: Steve Jobs level of intuitiveness?

Jerry: Yeah. The the goal with it is the least amount of clicks possible to get you to the information you want. Gotcha. And so we do some cool things. Like, we have a list stacking Mhmm.

Where you can you can actually say, okay. Well, I wanna look at absentee owners and preforeclosure. Check. Check. Done.

And it gives me that stacked list.

Steve: Gotcha.

Jerry: You know, so cool things like that, comping feature. One of the coolest things is all the owner information. So you can actually go in and see, like, when did they buy this? What's their what's their balance on their loans?

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: You know? So it gives you all of that data as well. We we already aggregate real estate agent data, so we have on market data on there too. So unlike what a lot of the other platforms do, because I come from the background of buying a lot of on market properties

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: What we do is we actually scrape for keywords similar to what Redfin does with their fixer upper feature. Mhmm. And we we now aggregate, motivated seller, distressed seller data on the MLS right in the system.

Steve: So you

Jerry: can look at on market leads and find distress.

Steve: So I can I can see a distressed property, see his MLS deal, and call the realtor directly?

Jerry: And and now before you have to dig it up, you know, because they they don't make the listing agent very easy to find usually. Yeah. Yeah. We gather that, and it's right there.

Steve: But the listing agent's contact info is in there as well. So you really like, you're trying to create a one stop shop.

Jerry: Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

Steve: You're a pioneer. My biggest fear about being a pioneer, you get all the arrows in your back. Yeah. Right.

Jerry: You guys I'm taking my lumps. Yeah. I'm taking my lumps in. And you know what? I maybe it doesn't work.

Mhmm. But, I'm sure putting my heart and soul into it and

Steve: Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm just clear. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, again, like, we've known each other for for quite some time.

That's it's actually kinda funny. I think, like, it's, like, over, like, six years. Right? Yeah. And you see this journey and, like, what you've done.

Because I remember when I first saw, you when I met you at your house, where it was, me, Pace, Brent, Jamil, and a couple other guys. I was like, oh, that's the Flipster guy? Like, I already downloaded that. I did that trial. At some point, I checked out those.

Oh, you're the Flipster guy. So it's it's really cool to see, like, this evolution from Flipster and, you know, and gaining, by the way, like, trapped in your your email.

Jerry: The vortex? Yeah.

Steve: You can't get out. Like, you're in. Like, you

Jerry: Yeah. You until you buy something, you're not allowed to get out.

Steve: You're not allowed to leave. Right? But to go to experience it on the inside as a consumer and meet you and then see this journey and see, like, everything you've done, like, it it's it's absolutely remarkable. And then so you're leading it feels like you're leading the industry in two different fronts. You're leading on the the wholesale, regulatory.

Like, hey, everyone. Like, this is what's coming. So which we spent a good part of this show on. Maybe that's not why they clicked on the link, but I think it's really important. Yeah.

Right? And the second part was, like, I'm gonna give everyone seller information. Right? Here's the stress list. You wanna go door knock.

If you wanna go send mail to it, like, here's the list. And if you wanna call it, here's the cost. Mhmm. Right? It's pretty remarkable what you're doing here.

Jerry: Thank you. I I mean, I

Steve: was gonna say, like, anything else you're excited about? I mean, you got a lot going on here. Is there anything

Jerry: Yeah. I think just, we talked about a little bit earlier, but I think the the evolution of our industry is, capital. I think we're gonna no matter how we slice it

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: I love some of these ideas, like like the installment method. Like, I think that might become now a a really go to strategy. I I think there's something there. But I think if people wanna play in this game, it's gonna get back to the good old fashioned. You gotta you better be able to fund stuff.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: Fund it, buy it, and now do stuff with it. Yeah. So we're we're actually, working with some nationwide lending and funding on, Propwire where where it'll be available there, where you can go on there, and you can do DSCR loans, fix and flip loans, transactional funding, which we already do some of that. And now this new I don't even know what to call it yet, but it's like the sixty day hotel money Mhmm. But just the quick turn type of lending because that's a little different now.

Mhmm.

Steve: And I've

Jerry: got a lot of ideas on how to structure that to where it's a big win for investor the the lender, and it's also accessible to the everyday person

Steve: Right.

Jerry: At a 100%. So, like, the full purchase funded.

Steve: Yeah.

Jerry: And to me, I that's the clear path that I see the newbie staying in the game. And when I say newbie, I just mean where, right now, capital is a is a a huge barrier to entry to a lot of people.

Steve: And less resourced. Yeah. They have You're

Jerry: very limited.

Steve: Yeah. Limited resources. So if your if your resource limited, here's the workaround. We got, again, seller leaseforfree, uh,.com, and then you got funding. It sounds like it's gonna be available there.

Mhmm.

Jerry: So That gets you in the game. Like, right like, now you have all the excuses people make up are, like, they're not real.

Steve: Like, my

Jerry: goal is to remove any excuse why you can't be successful in this business.

Steve: Man, you can figure that one out. You know? I mean, you've been in business for some time. Here's here is my continuous frustration. Because I have people that tell me they wanna be successful.

And oftentimes, I want them to be successful more. More than they do. More than they do? Yeah. Yeah.

Have you figured that one out yet?

Jerry: No. I and I don't think you will. I mean, part of this, if you're in the education space as as you are, is just understanding the nature of people and the journey they're on. Mhmm. And, I used to be very judgmental about it.

Like, I used to take it really personally that somebody would come on. Maybe they sign up. Maybe they spend money on a on a coaching program, and then I never hear from them again. Mhmm. And I used to take that person, like, man, somehow, I maybe I failed that person.

And, certainly, there's, like, look in the mirror and make sure you're you're doing right. But, we have such a high attrition rate because people's intentions never match their their actual output. Right? So a lot of people, they have really great intentions, but then when it when it comes time to do the work and pick up the freaking phone and call a 100 people today, most people just don't have what it takes to do it.

Steve: Yeah. My, my crummy joke's always been that most people wanna be rich. Like, I want a six pack. Like I don't want it. I don't want it.

I don't want it. But not really But that's not right. Not gonna do the work required. I can do the sacrifice to get a six pack. Right?

It's like, yeah. You wanna be rich, but, like, you don't wanna do the Yeah. The work required.

Jerry: I tell people I have this challenge I do all the time, Steve, where I say, if you talk to a 100 sellers, I get them on the phone and you talk to them and you make an offer. You have to get to an offer. Like, you can't just be like, hey. Okay. Bye.

Steve: You

Jerry: gotta say, here's a number and put it in front of them. If you do that a 100 times, you will get a deal. Right. You'll get a deal Yeah. That you wholesale for $10,000 or whatever.

You'll get a deal. Impossible.

Steve: Impossible not to.

Jerry: Because the stars will align. You'll just happen to be in the right place at the right time, but you gotta talk to a 100 people.

Steve: You gotta you gotta do the work.

Jerry: But people don't do it. I'm blown away. People don't do it. Yeah. They get to number 29, and they say this doesn't work.

And they can't handle the rejection, and it's painful, and they quit.

Steve: Yeah. I I've got this idea. I mean, it might come across as judgmental. I had this conversation with my best friend. He's my accountability partner.

We've been accountability partners, I wanna say, since 2011. It's, like, kinda fascinating to look back at. And his and his wife is a life coach. We're talking like, we pushed this entrepreneurship message on on social media. Right?

Here, I'm guilty of it here. Right? We push this message. We push this message, but it really isn't for everybody. Right?

It's for, like, four or 5% of population if that. Everyone wants it when they see the, the rewards. They see the, you know, the nice car Mhmm. Or the watch or the vacations, whatever.

Jerry: Mhmm.

Steve: But they don't see, like, 95% of it. That sucks. Yeah. Right. They don't see, like, having let someone go.

They don't see that kind of building conversations. They don't see, like, having to get a loan.

Jerry: Money on a deal. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Right? They don't see that.

Jerry: Do you think there's an entrepreneurial gene? Have you heard that idea?

Steve: I have not. What's that?

Jerry: Like, you're you're just you're either born with it or you're not. Idea.

Steve: I mean, I have I've I wouldn't say you're born with it or not, but I think that there's a lot of nature in it. A lot of nature and good amount of nurture as well. Yeah. I mean, is there what have you read on

Jerry: that? I mean, I think there's they're trying to find some science around that, and there's some there's some data. It's more around, your risk taking gene. Mhmm. Because that is there's there's actually we have a genetic makeup for our ability to tolerate risk.

Really? And entrepreneurs obviously have a high tolerance for risk. Yeah. So low tall low risk tolerance people don't end up don't end up being entrepreneurs.

Steve: No. You can't. Yeah. And you'll you'll lose your mind.

Jerry: Stressed out. Yeah. You'll be stressed out

Steve: of your mind.

Jerry: So I think there is something there that, maybe that kinda lends to that.

Steve: I think there might be something similar. Yeah. And I think just being first born, I think, has a lot of it. I think, are you where are you?

Jerry: Second. Second?

Steve: Yeah. Because typically, not anymore. But, like, in the past, historically, if you're a first born, your parents were, like, 18 or 22. Right? My dad was 22.

My mom was 16.

Jerry: Mhmm. Mine too. Yeah.

Steve: Right? Like, did they know what they were doing? Yeah. Right? And so, like, growing up, you had to figure a lot of things out.

Yeah. And my parents were working sixty, eighty sixty, seventy, eighty hours a week, more eighty than seventy. Right? Like, they weren't around. They were good parents, but they weren't around because they had to hustle.

So growing up in that household, you had to heat up the food yourself Yeah. If you were hungry. There was no, like, DoorDash or Grubhub or whatever. Right?

Jerry: A lot of responsibility for yourself. Uh-huh. Take care of yourself.

Steve: So I think that part where you were programmed to be resourceful from a young age.

Jerry: Yeah. I do think, though, like, sometimes I just meet someone, and I'm like, you got it. Like, they just got an internal drive

Steve: If there's a dog in them.

Jerry: And they're ready. Mhmm. And they're hungry, and sometimes they just need the right platform, and they just Yeah. They just explode. Right?

And and then other people well, I I I had a a high ticket coaching student, and I was sitting down with them. And they said to me this is what they said to me. They said, Jerry, so here's the deal. I have a really good paying job. And so my family and I, we have a we have this certain standard of living.

And I wanna make this real estate thing work, but I don't wanna jeopardize my current standard of living. How do I do that? Like, that was his question. Mhmm. In other words, I don't really wanna make any sacrifices, but I want the end result.

Right.

Steve: I want

Jerry: the end result without the sacrifice. And I said, I looked him straight in the eye, and I said, I don't think you can. I mean, you're gonna have to when your job ends at five, you're gonna start your second job till midnight. Like, right? Like, that's how you get something going

Steve: Right.

Jerry: Until that replaces this. Like, you what do you mean? You don't unless you're willing to really pay a price Mhmm.

Steve: To

Jerry: have it. How bad do you want it? Doesn't sound like you really want it that bad, and he didn't because he was comfortable. I mean, the biggest the biggest deterrent to success is comfort.

Steve: I mean, Jim Collins wrote the book. Right? The enemy of, was it good is the enemy of greats.

Jerry: Yeah. Yeah. Good to great. Right?

Steve: Yeah. If you got a good life, it's pretty hard to get a pretty great life. That's right. The reason why I love wholesale and the reason why I'm so frustrated with all the the the, regulations and so on is that all the people that aren't living good lives are removing this path for them. Mhmm.

So, so guys, again, if you guys are interested, seller leads for free dot com. Get access to Jerry's insane program. I I I hope, you know, he he he he doesn't disappear. Someone doesn't

Jerry: someone doesn't I get in a mysterious car accident or something?

Steve: Yeah. You're gonna have If we don't have something bad happen to you, you'll pick up the phone whenever I call you still. So selltheleaseforfree.com. What are some last thoughts and messages you wanna leave all the listeners with?

Jerry: Yeah. I just think, guys, be nimble. Be willing to adapt quickly. I think I mentioned earlier, the most successful people in this business, they're quick to adapt. You know, I was I met earlier with, Zach Keeps.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: And, I mean, the guy's a machine, and and he was telling me, he's like, yeah. I had a house burned down today. I'm like, what? Wait. What?

And he was just casual about it. I'm like, wait a minute. Did you just say your you had a one of your and he owns, like, a ton of property. You have one he's like, yeah. I'm like, are you are you, like, freaked out about that?

He's like, nah, man. Like, I got insurance. I got this. It's alright. And so, like, his level of ability to adapt to things that happen is so high.

And everybody I see that that operates at a high level, they're just they're just quick to adjust.

Steve: Mhmm.

Jerry: And the more able you're willing to do that in our in our in it and embrace it, like, not don't not just, like, tolerate it, but embrace it. So for me, it's like, hey. If I can do something disruptive or if I can take all this negative regulation stuff, there's a door closing. What's the door opening? Even if I've got a I've gotta go create a door to open.

Right? Like, what's the opening door, and how do I be first to implement? The early implementers are the ones that make the money.

Steve: Oh, yeah. A 100%.

Jerry: Like, how do you be an early implementer and and get your head out of take the blinders off? I mean, I see so many people with blinders on in our business and just in in general where they're just so hyper focused on, like, this one way of doing something that they miss all this other opportunity. Yeah. And I think if there's one thing I could share about what we talked about today was just like, guys, don't if you're thinking right now, well, wholesaling's too hard. I'm out.

Man, if that's all it took was a friction like, a little bit of friction and you're out, then you should have never been here in the first place because you're never gonna make it.

Steve: Right.

Jerry: Because there's a lot of friction to do this business well.

Steve: Yeah. It reminds me of a quote from Elon Musk. It's like, what do you tell an entrepreneur, that is going through hard times? Like, if this is what breaks you, you never should be an entrepreneur. Like, dang.

Yeah. Yeah. How can someone find you?

Jerry: I mean, my biggest thing is YouTube. Like, that's where I try to spend most of my time and energy is creating content there. So it's flipping mastery. Yep. And flipping mastery is also Instagram and Facebook and stuff.

But yeah. Awesome. That's the best way.

Steve: It was absolute pleasure. Thank you for coming on. Thank you for sharing what's going on. I wish there are more people talking about it, but, I mean, the fact that you are going deep into this and sharing updates as to what's going on, you're like a reporter on the street. It's it's incredible value for everyone that's that's, you know, interested.

It's affecting their career. So Flipping Mastery, definitely, guys, check it out on YouTube. Thank you so thank you so much for coming on. You're welcome. Thank you.

And we'll see you guys next time. Shout out to Steve train. Jump on the Steve train. We real estate disrupt us.